New Preprint:
Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia. bioRxiv. Published online 2022. doi:10.1101/2022.05.04.490594
They found some new cool samples from 5300 bce. These are samples from Middle Don region with CHG ancestry. These should be the ancestors of the Khvalynsk samples who show no IranN/IndiaN as per my modeling.
From the preprint:
Interestingly, two herein reported ~7,300-year-old imputed genomes from the Middle Don River region in the Pontic-Caspian steppe (Golubaya Krinitsa, NEO113 & NEO212) derive ~20-30% of their ancestry from a source cluster of hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus (Caucasus_13000BP_10000BP) (Fig. 3). Additional lower coverage (non imputed) genomes from the same site project in the same PCA space (Fig. 1D), shifted away from the European hunter-gatherer cline towards Iran and the Caucasus. Our results thus document genetic contact between populations from the Caucasus and the Steppe region as early as 7,300 years ago, providing documentation of continuous admixture prior to the advent of later nomadic Steppe cultures, in contrast to recent hypotheses, and also further to the west than previously reported.
We demonstrate that this “steppe” ancestry (Steppe_5000BP_4300BP) can be modelled as a mixture of ~65% ancestry related to herein reported hunter-gatherer genomes from the Middle Don River region (MiddleDon_7500BP) and ~35% ancestry related to hunter-gatherers from Caucasus (Caucasus_13000BP_10000BP) (Extended Data Fig. 4). Thus, Middle Don hunter-gatherers, who already carry ancestry related to Caucasus hunter-gatherers (Fig. 2), serve as a hitherto unknown proximal source for the majority ancestry contribution into Yamnaya genomes.
Now this 35% CHG/IranN which came in later, this should contain the IndiaN/IranN that I have written about at length in previous posts.
Let me get my hands on the geno files, I should have a lot of fun working with these samples.
UPDATE:
The paper has 3 new samples from the neolithic Western Iranian site of Tepe Guran dated to around 7000BCE. Should be similar to the Ganj Dareh samples. The male sample is J2a.
Most importantly, they have a 4600 BCE sample from the south Turkmenistan site of Monjukli-Depe.
Y-HG is L1a. The paper says this
"The Neolithic individual from Turkmenistan (~6,500 BP) clusters close to Neolithic Iranians."
So I think we will finally have a sample with the IndiaN ancestry rather than IranN. IranN is the western version, IndiaN being the eastern one. This ancestry gets diluted due to later influx from West Asia as seen in the later AnatoliaN heavy Geoksyur, Anau and Namazga samples.
104 comments:
Do they know for sure that the extra 35% CHG/IranN ancestry is surely CHG or is this another case of assuming CHG over IranN?
Will check their modeling tomorrow
Harappan ancestry is mostly derived from hotu & belt cave lineages, right?
J2b2 & J2a1 are found in the roopkund samples which match male lineages from hotu & belt cave, right?
Hotu & belt caves are in Northern Iran bordering caspien sea and its where PIE speakers lived as per Max plank Institute, right?
This lineage is found in a large region from western Iran to central asia to India yet only the indic branches have dravidian substratum.
Doesn't this further strenghten the possibility of AASI being proto-dravidian?
If Witzels dasa=dahae=dacians is true then makes perfect sense for arya people to have been present on the southern shores of caspien sea.
Dahae confederation was on the eastern shore of caspien.
This might not make sense if we read the texts which clearly mention that dasa/dasyu were driven westward by Agni.
Any possibility of this:
"So the likely hood of these hymns being composed sometime after this iranian hg related ancestry migrated into sapta-sindhu region. Somewhere between 5000bce-4000bce. 3102bce kaliyuga started and a new civilization took birth. Where we see the manifestation modern Indic gods like Shiva & mother Goddess, lingams etc"
Also any possibility of East asian HG ancestry in sanauli or late bronze age gangetic plain samples based on modern DNA?
IndiaN and hotu cave sample share a common ancestor. Hotu cave like people did not migrate to India. Also, Indic languages don't have Dravidian substratum
Oh! Thanks.
So the claims of dravidian loans in vedic are fraudulent? I keep seeing these posts and dont know what to make of it.
Loanwords do not mean substratum. Substratum has a specific meaning. It means the local language, some of whose features (grammatical, etc) carry on to the new language which replaced that local language over time.
"Substratum. A substratum (plural: substrata) or substrate is a language that an intrusive language influences, which may or may not ultimately change it to become a new language. The term is also used of substrate interference; i.e. the influence the substratum language exerts on the replacing language."
Loanwords can occur through minor trade as well.
Thanks 😮
"Doesn't this further strenghten the possibility of AASI being proto-dravidian?"
@Assuwatama, Seems unlikely though. There are tribal groups like Toda (who will carry decent Iran_N like ancestry based on circumstantial evidence that I have seen) who speak an archaic dravidian language. Many non-brahmin souther groups seem to score decent "IndiaN" ancestry.
"Also any possibility of East asian HG ancestry in sanauli or late bronze age gangetic plain samples based on modern DNA?"
Which modern day groups of that region have east asian HG ancestry ? As for sanauli and other late harappan samples, all I have heard from rumors and niraj rai interview that they will be more AASI shifted versions of rakhigarhi sample(which is expected given their location).
if AASI is not Dravidian then who were the AASI?
AASI is unique to sub-continent. If IndiaN is proto-dravidian then in sahar e Sukhteh and BMAC, languages has to be from the same language family.
But substrate in modern languages in eastern Iran & BMAC regions hardly show any dravidian influence.
What ever was spoken in BMAC and eastern Iran was very close to what was spoken in Punjab.
For those dravidians showing good portions of IndiaN ancestry, shoudnt be that surprizing. Sakas were genetically distinct from Indians yet they spoke/used Sanskrit. Turks in India were using persian.
So such phenomena is hardly surprizing.
Sanauli is dated 2000-1500bce.
Since I am taking northern harapans as Indo-aryans in my models, sanauli feels like an apt place for picking munda like substrate, if there is any in Vedic Sanskrit.
What did nishads spoke?
Not to forget Ahar banas culture and other late harappan era chalcolithic cultures. We have no clue what was their genetic profile. Could possible be those high AASI tribes.
But again i would probably be wrong on that point.
Not far from nepal border. Were nepalis East Asian 2000bce and got Indian add mixture as harappans migrated eastwards?
@Ashish
What is the porportion of steppe AASI & IndiaN among Nepali, Sinhalese Maldevian speakers?
"What is the porportion of steppe AASI & IndiaN among Nepali, Sinhalese Maldevian speakers?"
No idea. Even Irulas have about 40-45% IndianN+ANE/Tarim_emba. Rest being AASI.
"if AASI is not Dravidian then who were the AASI?"
AASI should be strongly correlated with dravidian speakers. However, AASI is very old >40kya old. Was dravidian present since then? i don't think so. Then we have to get into how the first languages form and I don't know enough about that process.
Dravidian has absolutely 0 to do with Iran. There is no evidence of dravidian being present in Punjab, leave alone Iran. None of the toponymns in RV are dravidian. None of the inexplicable words in RV show dravidian roots. That's why the migrationists now propose language X substrate.
5000-year-old jewellery factory found in Haryana’s Indus Valley site Rakhi Garhi
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/haryana/story/5000-year-old-jewellery-factory-haryana-indus-valley-site-rakhi-garhi-asi-1946740-2022-05-08
"Sakas were genetically distinct from Indians yet they spoke/used Sanskrit. Turks in India were using persian."
These ethnic groups were using the language of more advanced civilizations living near them and they were heavily influenced by these dominant cultures. We can say that it was an example of elite dominance (kind of how we are both interacting in english despite being ethnically from the subcontinent).
Remember we are talking about pre-history here. To the contrary, South india had a very late neolithic compared to gangetic plains and there is 0 evidence that they were more advanced than the southward migrating IVC-ian groups, that's why it seems a bit hard to swallow southward migrating IVC-ian groups adopted the language of a demographically smaller and much more primitive culture . It's like saying that proto-sinhalese should have adopted the language of veddas.
If you ask about my hunch, tyen i think the southern IVC region near sindh might have been proto-dravidian speaking.
I think due to the bias towards indo-european studies, there has not been much proper research and enthusiasm into the dravidian languages and finding substrates among them.
"apt place for picking munda like substrate, if there is any in Vedic Sanskrit.
What did nishads spoke?"
I don't think that austro-asiatic mundas were that west that early. There is still debate over the timing of arrival of munda speakers in the eastern part of the subcontinent.
Perhaps what is being thought of as Munda Substrate is some extinct language X which made contribution to both munda and indo-aryan. Perhaps this was the language nishadas spoke.
May be the language was in some way related to proto-nihali
I don't know how true this is but a southern indian friend told me that tribes like irula still had difficulty pronouncing tamil words, it seemed as if they had undergone a language change.
I think there has not been been enough attention into dravidian languages .
As for AASI, I don't think there was a single language of AASI people given the vastness of subcontinent. Remember that eastern gangetic plain is still AASI heavy and would have been more so in 1800 BCE. Clearly, they were speaking some language before mundas had arrived. That language wasn't dravidian so what was that ?
Yes I too feel the possibility of proto-dravidians in the IVC but further south around diamabad and nearby chalcolithic cultures. If i am not wrong we have found a bull pulled chariot/racing cart like figure from there.
Kurukh & Malto are dravidian languages spoken in and around Austroasiatic speakers.
"If IndiaN is proto-dravidian then in sahar e Sukhteh and BMAC, languages has to be from the same language family."
Well, not necessarily true.
It's not necessary that population spread across a wide region (in this case from central asia/BMAC region to southern sindh) sharing deep ancestry (in this case IndiaN ) must be speaking a language belonging to same language family. A similar analogy would be different AASI groups speaking what evolved into different language families (going by your assumption, dravidian in south india and some language X in eastern india).
A more concrete example of this phenomenon would be native american languages which are clasified into many language families, some being even unrelated to each other however, except for the northern peripheral native indians, all native anericans were roughly modelled as ANE +east asian so they were of the same 'stock' genetically.
Yep! That looks to be the case. So only possibility left is a proto-sino-Tibetian presence in Nepal. I wonder who arrived in nepal first, Harappans or Tibetans?
Interesting thing to note is high east asian ancestry yet Indo-Aryan both linguistically and culturally.
Wonder when nepali ancestry and language formed.
"Kurukh & Malto are dravidian languages spoken in and around Austroasiatic speakers."
It's weird that brahui alonng with kurukh and malto are classified as northern dravidian language.
Were there languages recent imports to that region or have been there since let's say bronze age ? Do we see such dravidian substrstes in pali and eastern magadhi works ?
"So only possibility left is a proto-sino-Tibetian presence in Nepal."
Hold your horses there, O immortal Assuwutuma, there is apparently a language isolate called kusunda in nepal .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusunda_language
There are only a very few speakers left of this language apparently. Obviously, being surrounded by IA and tibetan speakers, they have borrowed heavily but the laguage is in many ways different from IA and tibetan.
I am dying to know that but there arent many in India who could do this kind of research.
Brahui despite 80% related to Balochi (not avestan) is labellled Dravidian. Unlikely to be present in late bronze age balochistan.
Oh! Thanks. Thats pretty cool. Wasnt aware of this information. What is their genetic make up?
Was BMAC Avestan speaking 2200bce?
Punjab Harappans Sanskrit speaking 2200bce?
My guess is proto-dravidian being present in southern IVC region(southern part of sindh).
@ashish is this true?
From gamerz_J
"Iosif Lazaridis recently mentioned that CHG differs from Iran_N in having more European HG-related ancestry and thus both did not derive from the same population in what he called as the WHG-ANE continuum.
This paper posits CHG as mostly derived from an Iran_N-related + Caucasus_UP and ANE ancestry (extended Figure 5).
The amount of shared ancestry this paper suggests between them doesn't to me to speak of continuous contact between 2 distinct populations but more of shared ancestry."
Once again, ponder all you want, but there is zero evidence for a Dravidian substratum in North India. Simplest explanation is that Dravidian originated in peninsular India.
Also not sure about the late neolithic for south india. There is evidence for very old usage of agriculture in sri lanka. I know its not south india proper, but still.
Yeah CHG and IranN formed from similar components but different proportions
"There is evidence for very old usage of agriculture in sri lanka."
Haha, I hope you are not talking about that swarajyamag article which made a wild extrapolation of 10,000 BCE agriculture in sri lanka lol.
Why would have vedda people(sri lankan settlers pre-sinhalese and pre-tamil migration) remained hunter-gatherers in a small place like sri lanka if agriculture was that that old there ? (Vedda adoption of agriculture is recent and not all have made that transition till now).
Anyways, as far as I know based on evidences till now, neolithic in south india is thought to begin around 3000 BCE at the very earliest.
Apparently, there is a 4600 BCE L1a2(L-M357) sample in southern turkmenistan in the supplement of above pre-print . This is perhaps the oldest L1a2 sample found so far.
There is a 4600bce Turkmenistan sample? Wow.
, Let me see if that's true.
Is there any link to the Geno/Bed dataset?
Updated the blog:
The paper has 3 new samples from the neolithic Western Iranian site of Tepe Guran dated to around 7000BCE. Should be similar to the Ganj Dareh samples. The male sample is J2a.
Most importantly, they have a 4600 BCE sample from the south Turkmenistan site of Monjukli-Depe.
Y-HG is L1a. The paper says this
"The Neolithic individual from Turkmenistan (~6,500 BP) clusters close to Neolithic Iranians."
So I think we will finally have a sample with the IndiaN ancestry rather than IranN. IranN is the western version, IndiaN being the eastern one. This ancestry gets diluted due to later influx from west asia as seen in the later Geoksyur, Anau and Namazga samples.
NEO310 should fit right in as a source of steppe eneolithic if it indeed is similar to IranN with low to no Anatolian farmer ancestry.
wow, nice one. If Neolithic individual from Turkmenistan (NEO310?) fits into ghost population IndiaN, it would be really awesome!!
Indeed. Cant wait for the data lol.
Only comments using google accounts will be allowed henceforth.
AIM's rants have really disappointed me. People weren't wrong when they claimed "selling old wine in a new bottle".
Genocidal White Aryans migrated into India lol. We don't even know who composed the Vedas. We don't even know what they spoke when they migrated nor do we know what harapans spoke.
What kind a of genocide took place when women like Priyanka marries Nick or Guys like Kapoors marry some white lady ;)
Razib I have been told that you are stalking this blog. Mind returning the money with interest of those who subscribed your substack once your genocidal theories are proven wrong.
Stalking isnt a problem. Just wish they use their identity and have an honest chat.
Any idea why swat valley people show European phenome despite similar steppe component?
Has it to do with more anatolian through BMAC or low proportion of AASI?
IranN/IndiaN is is 50% (forget exactly) west eurasian too.
This only shows lack of belief and conviction in their own theories.
Oh! Is that the highest among modern North West Indian groups?
BTW I came across a post on eurogenes blog where one user claimed that PCA of this paper shows CHG peaking in Pakistan and CHG = Iran_N related + Caucasus Upper Paleolithic+ANE. Both statements have confused me.
This new preprint is unnecessarily confusing. They lump CHG/IranN together and claim CHG in India/Pak. Its actually IranN
Yes,
CHG = IranN + Dzudzuana heavy ancestry + ANE is plausible
Archaeologists have found that iron implements were used in Tamil Nadu as far back as 4200 years ago, potentially making it the oldest Iron Age site in India!
TN archaeology is going through a pretty exciting phase, read more here
https://theprint.in/india/iron-age-in-tamil-nadu-dates-back-4200-years-oldest-in-india-excavated-implements-reveal/949224/
@Assu
Have you not read the study yet..? your comments are very silly. Please stop spamming bizzare questions. It's hard to have any serious discussions on this blog due to this. It seems you don't even know how to access study if you have to ask that. It's better you familiarize yourself with basic things before you speak about something, it's not about what someone says, stick with what the study says first.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.04.490594v2.full.pdf
"The various hunter-gatherer ancestries are not homogeneously distributed amongst modern populations (Fig. 5). WHG-related ancestry is highest in present-day individuals from the Baltic States, Belarus, Poland, and Russia; EHG-related ancestry is highest in Mongolia, Finland, Estonia and Central Asia; and CHG-related ancestry is maximised in countries east of the Caucasus, in Pakistan, India, Afghanistan and Iran, in accordance with previous results. The CHG-related ancestry likely reflects both Caucasus hunter-gatherer and Iranian Neolithic signals, explaining the relatively high levels in south Asia"
Thanks.
Z94 & Y3 have same formation dates?
2600bce
Isn't z94 father clad of Y3? Wait! Is Z93 father clad to both Z94 & Y3? Y3 absent in pontic steppe bronze & late bronze age despite 2600bce formation date.
Does this mean some Z93 male migrated outside the steppes whose offspring mutated into Y3 in contrast to those who stayed in Europe where it mutated to z94?
As per the kurganists who were the swat valley people?
Proto-indo-iranians or proto-nuristanis?
AFTER SEEING THE (almost) ABSENCE OF R1A IN SWAT VALLEY DATA, they think it wasnt IE lmao.
Z93>Z94
Z94 mutated into Y3/Y2 and Z2124 independently. All of steppe mlba samples from sintashta, andronovo etc are Z2124+. Only the 2 kashkarchi samples are Z94 terminal clade iirc.
Whereas bulk of modern Indians are Y3/Y2>L657+.
In aDna, we now have 2 samples from Uzbekistan and china post the CE period which is Y3+. The xinjiang sample may even be L657+. But this was the time when buddhists were already moving from india to china.
The 2 non steppe roopkund R1a's are both Y3+. One also being L657+.
Oh! Thanks.
Formation dates of z94 Y3 & z2124 is 2600bce. What could explain this rapid mutation? Were people on the move around 2600bce? Had it to do with rapid urbanization in IVC which may have brought some travellers to IVC?
Steppe EBA
Steppe MBA
Steppe MLBA
Steppe LBA
Are all of them exact same ancestry?
Nope
Steppe_EBA is like yamnaya or in some cases like steppe_maykop
Steppe_MBA is like Steppe_mlba ie sintashta/srubnaya/cordedware
Steppe LBA is MLBA + variable east asian
Are geneticists 100% sure about no steppe EBA autosomal ancestry in India?
I mean like 20 odd people setup a trading colony in North West India from 3000bce. Indian artifact's have been found in mykop culture, right?
Some took local brides and overtime these Z93 evolved into India specific R1a subclades.
Person A marries Person B and beget Person C with 50-50 ancestry. Person C marries Person D from population A but took culture and language of Population B.
Grandchild of A carries 75% of his ancestry but language and culture of Population B.
In 60 odd years ancestry which was associated with language X is now associated with language Y. Overtime this language Y will regain its 100% ancestry ie from population A without leaving any trace of ancestry from Population B.
Is it possible?
I am using Google translator
Indus is Cintu in Tamil Sindhu in Telugu
Night is Iravu in Tamil Ratri in Telugu
Horse is kutirai in Tamil Gurram in Telugu
I believe there are many such examples where Telugu has words nearer to Sanskrit than Dravidian. Also many Telugu groups show higher Iranian ancestry compared to other Dravidian.
I guess Telugu was formed during the phase when native speakers married in large numbers with indo-Aryan speaking groups from NW.
Or may be this higher Iranian input brought with it the Indo-Aryan vocabulary.
Was swat valley Harappan : BMAC+steppe or Harappa + steppe : BMAC?
Admixture is dated to 1800-1700bce? But steppe admix into BMAC happened post 1600bce, right?
Need clarity on it 🙏
"I guess Telugu was formed during the phase when native speakers married in large numbers with indo-Aryan speaking groups from NW.
Or may be this higher Iranian input brought with it the Indo-Aryan vocabulary."
Indeed, larger IA vocab in telugu corresponds with higher IranN ancestry from the north. Panta Kapus have very low AASI in the 3 source AI, ANI, AASI model.
"Admixture is dated to 1800-1700bce? But steppe admix into BMAC happened post 1600bce, right?"
It is possible that steppe admixed with an IVC + bmac mixed population living in swat.
Yes. Shortugai was on borders of BMAC. That indeed is within the realm of possibility. Samples from there and nearby areas could be very interesting.
IranN ancestry in south india is without a doubt the ancestry of migrants who aryanized south india. I am 100% sure that megalithic aDNA will show this IndiaN component. Material culture of Megalithic culture has lots of north indian element. I hope we get IndiaN in neolithic times too.
Do we see any Andronovo & Scythian female lineages in modern day India and Pakistan?
"Scythian, also called Scyth, Saka, and Sacae, member of a nomadic people, originally of Iranian stock, known from as early as the 9th century BCE who migrated westward from Central Asia to southern Russia and Ukraine in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE."
Do you have autosomal profile of oldest and youngest scythian samples?
Is it possible that the early scythians were more BMAC shifted than later scythians who carried around 50% steppe ancestry? If that is indeed the case then wouldn't that point to pure steppe MLBA source in eastern Europe as late as 300 BCE?
How much steppe is there in BMAC regions between 1500-1000bce compared to 1000-500bce?
If early scythians in Russia carry large chunk of BMAC ancestry and BMAC on being a neighbour of Vedic Indus can easily transmit Vedic loans into Russia through Priesthood or ruling elite which was well verse in Vedic.
Kinda like Turks who weren't Persian but under their rule lots of Persian scholars and Islamic clergy found its way into India which brought Persian linguistic features along with cultural traits.
Do we see any Andronovo & Scythian female lineages in modern day India and Pakistan?
We seen European specific mtDna markers, not sure about andronovo/scythian as I havent studied that specifically
MtDNA from swat valley samples? For both men & women.
Are they indus-BMAC specific or there is higher proportion of steppe female lineages compared to 2 in 44 male R1a?
Kinda interesting but I am probably being foolish in linking the 2.
Oldest Sanskrit inscription is dated to ~150bce Ghosundi-Hathibada inscription located Nagari (Chittorgarh), Rajasthan.
There once existed Ahar-banas chalcolithic cultures in and around this region between 3000-1500bce.
Manishtushu (𒈠𒀭𒅖𒌅𒋢, Ma-an-ish-tu-su) was the third king of the Akkadian Empire, reigning from c. 2270 BC until his assassination in 2255 BC (Middle Chronology).
What do you make of it?
This Indo-Aryan word/Person name "Manish" in Akkadian predates Gandash of Kassites by 500 years.
A genetic study published in Nature in May 2018 examined the remains of 6 Kangju buried between ca. 200 CE and 300 CE. The 2 samples of Y-DNA extracted belonged to the paternal haplogroups R1a1a1b2a and R1a1a1b2a2b, while the 6 samples mtDNA extracted belonged to the maternal haplogroups H6a1a, C4a1, U2e2a1, HV13b, U2e1h and A8a1.
Do we find these female lineages in Kashmir?
Don't ask me about etymology of specific words, I don't know the subject well enough.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-18893-8#additional-information
Check the additional file #3 with the sample ids and mtDna HG. I see some U2e3, C4a1, H6a1b
Thanks!
Any possibility of some sections of Kura-araxes spoke Hurrian language?
Levant_Ashkelon spoke Semitic languages?
According to you ;KA samples can be modeled with qpAdm as 76% Azerbaijan_LateNeolithic + 24% Sarazm_Eneolithic
Can we model them on the basis of CHG IranN EHG WHG AnatolianN etc? What could be the likely source of Hurrian language?
Udegram_IA 1200-800bce has a lot of E1b.
Saidu Sharif 500-300bce has R1a1a1b. This would be ancestral to Kangju R1a1a1b2a & R1a1a1b2a2b from 200-300ce, right?
One modern Rajput sample has R1a1a1b2a1 & R1a1a1b2a2, other modern rajputs have c1b, e1a, h1a, h3a, J1a, J2b.
Aligrama_IA
970-550bce
G2a2a, R2a3a, L1a
Barikot_IA
1000-800bce
U2e1, H2Oa, J1b1b, U8b1a1, M65a
H1a1
Butkara_IA
200-0bce
M30b, U2a, HV
J1
Katelai_IA
1000-800bce
U4d, J1d, M35b, Z31a1
J2a1, R2a
Leobanr
1300-1000bce
R30b1
L1a
1000-800bce
W3a1b, U2e, M4, M5, U7a, T2g1, U2c1, U3b
L1a x4, R1b, R2a, C1b, Q1b2
Saidu Sharif
500-300bce
H, H15a, M30, K1b1, M52a, C4a, H13a, R5a2, U2b2
R1a1a1b, L1a, Q1b2, A
Udegram_IA
1200-800bce
M65a1, T2a1b, U8b, R30a1b, U7a, U1a, H2a2, M, U4c, W3a1, U1a1, H14a,
E1a, E1b x8, A0T, CT, H1a1a
I will recheck if I missed any but Swat valley has only 1 R1a and that too from 500-300bce, R2a -L1a-E1b make the bulk.
Mary (2019) studied the genetics of remains from the Aldy-Bel culture in and around Tuva in central Asia, adjacent to western Mongolia; the Aldy-Bel culture is considered one of the Scythian cultures. The majority of the samples (9 out of 17) were found to be carriers of haplogroup R1a, including two carriers of haplogroup R1a1a1b2‑Z93.
This culture is dated 7th-3rd century BCE. This saidu Sharif guy could be a scythian, right?
There are 2 T2a1b in swat valley
Wilde et al. (2014) tested mtDNA samples from the Yamna culture, the presumed homeland (or Urheimat) of Proto-Indo-European speakers, and found T2a1b in the Middle Volga region and Bulgaria.
Some these H mtdna clads in swat if not all could be related to Caucasus-steppe cultures.
These people in Butkara & Saidu Sharif probably spoke Gandhari Prakrit.
U2e is also from Europe and U2b2 in Saidu Sharif probably a descendant of Rakhigarhi Women ;)
E1b1b is found at high frequencies in Morocco (over 80%), Somalia (80%), Ethiopia (40% to 80%), Tunisia (70%), Algeria (60%), Egypt (40%), Jordan (25%), Palestine (20%), and Lebanon (17.5%).
On the European continent it has the highest concentration in Kosovo (over 45%), Albania and Montenegro (both 27%), Bulgaria (23%), Macedonia and Greece (both 21%), Cyprus (20%), Sicily (20%), South Italy (18.5%), Serbia (18%) and Romania (15%). Ashkenazi Jews have approximately 20% of E1b1b, which falls mostly under specific clades of E-M123.
Where is this Haplogroup coming from ? Only 1 sample in BMAC has it. Was it present in Indus Periphery samples?
U4d1 is found in Afanasievo culture 3000bce :)
Any connection to U4d in Swat valley?
Indus Periphery (Iran) H2a
Mitanni H2a3
Swat H2a2
Are these lineages related or unrelated?
Nope.
Only J2a1h and H1a1d x2 in IP.
H2a: found in Neolithic Italy
H2a1: found mostly in Eastern Europe, the North Caucasus and Central Asia. IE diffusion (R1a) / found in Bell Beaker Germany, and in Bronze Age France, Scotland and Russia (Fatyanovo culture)
H2a2
H2a2a: found throughout Europe / found in LBA Scotland and among the Scythians from Hungary
H2a2b: found in Chalcolithic Poland (Corded Ware culture)
H2a3: found in Kenya (El Molo) / found in EBA England
H13a
H13a1 : found in Bronze Age Poland
H13a2: found among the ancient Caucasian Alans and Tian Shan Huns
H14a: found mostly in the Levant, Kurdistan, Iran, but also in Bulgaria, Greece, Italy, the Czech Republic, Scotland and Ireland / found in Sumerian Syria and in Hellenistic Lebanon
H15a: found mostly in northwestern Europe / found in the Eneolithic Caucasus (Shulaveri-Shomu culture), in Bronze Age Russia (Fatyanovo culture) and in EBA Scotland
H20: found in England, Hungary, Italy, around the Near East and the Caucasus / found in Neolithic Catalonia
U3b : found in MLBA Israel (Tell Megiddo) and MLBA Jordan
U3b1 : found in central Europe and Russia (Volga)
U3b1a : found in Yemen / found in MLBA Jordan
U3b1b
U3b1c : found among Gypsies
U3b2 : found in Hungary, Sicily, Kurdistan (Turkey), the Levant and the Arabian peninsula
U3b2a : found in central Italy, Turkey and Armenia
U3b2a1
U3b2b
U3b3 : found in Saudi Arabia and Germany / found in in MLBA Jordan
U4d : found in Neolithic Ukraine
U4d1: found in Russia, Baltic countries, Poland, Czechia, Germany, the Netherlands and Scandinavia / found in Mesolithic Latvia, in Bell Beaker Germany, and in the Andronovo culture
U4d1a
U4b1d1a1: found in Germany, Sweden and especially Finland
U4d1b: found in Poland
U4d2: found in central Europe and the northern Siberia (Nganasan) / found in Bell Beaker Germany and in Bronze Age Poland
U4d3: found in Ukraine, Germany, and the British Isles
K1b1 : found throughout Europe / found in Neolithic France
U2e : found in most of Europe and Central Asia / found in Mesolithic Germany and Russia, in Chalcolithic Russia, in the Andronovo culture, among the Scythians and in Iron Age Scandinavia and England.
U2e1: found in Mesolithic Sweden, Estonia and Latvia, in Neolithic Ukraine, in Bell Beaker Czechia, in the Corded Ware and Unetice cultures, and in EBA Alsace
Can we model the modern swat valley population as SPGT + Kangju?
15% ----7.5%
52% --- 26%
33.5% steppe + 32.5 BMAC + 22.5% Harappan + 11.5% East Asian?
We present an integrative genetic history of the Southern Arc, an area divided geographically between West Asia and Europe, but which we define as spanning the culturally entangled regions of Anatolia and its neighbors, in both Europe (Aegean and the Balkans), and in West Asia (Cyprus, Armenia, the Levant, Iraq and Iran). We employ a new analytical framework to analyze genome-wide data at the individual level from a total of 1,320 ancient individuals, 731 of which are newly reported and address major gaps in the archaeogenetic record. We report the first ancient DNA from the world’s earliest farming cultures of southeastern Anatolia and northern Mesopotamia, as well as the first Neolithic period data from Cyprus and Armenia, and discover that it was admixture of Natufian-related ancestry from the Levant—mediated by Mesopotamian and Levantine farmers, and marked by at least two expansions associated with dispersal of pre-pottery and pottery cultures—that generated a pan-West Asian Neolithic continuum. Our comprehensive sampling shows that Anatolia received hardly any genetic input from Europe or the Eurasian steppe from the Chalcolithic to the Iron Age; this contrasts with Southeastern Europe and Armenia that were impacted by major gene flow from Yamnaya steppe pastoralists.
In the Balkans, we reveal a patchwork of Bronze Age populations with diverse proportions of steppe ancestry in the aftermath of the ~3000 BCE Yamnaya migrations, paralleling the linguistic diversity of Paleo-Balkan speakers. We provide insights into the Mycenaean period of the Aegean by documenting variation in the proportion of steppe ancestry (including some individuals who lack it altogether), and finding no evidence for systematic differences in steppe ancestry among social strata, such as those of the elite buried at the Palace of Nestor in Pylos.
A striking signal of steppe migration into the Southern Arc is evident in Armenia and northwest Iran where admixture with Yamnaya patrilineal descendants occurred, coinciding with their 3rd millennium BCE displacement from the steppe itself. This ancestry, pervasive across numerous sites of Armenia of ~2000-600 BCE, was diluted during the ensuing centuries to only a third of its peak value, making no further western inroads from there into any part of Anatolia, including the geographically adjacent Lake Van center of the Iron Age Kingdom of Urartu. The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows, both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the steppe served only as a secondary staging area of Indo-European language dispersal. The demographic significance of Anatolia on a Mediterranean-wide scale is further documented by our finding that following the Roman conquest, the Anatolian population remained stable and became the geographic source for much of the ancestry of Imperial Rome itself.
https://iias.huji.ac.il/event/david-reich-lecture
Implications for India?
Reich confirms what i have been saying. Anatolian languages originate from Armenia/iran.
@ Assuwatama
There is another word from Akkadian and hittite sources Purushanda (also variously Puruskhanda, Purushhattum or Burushattum)
The city is prominently mentioned in the Cappadocian Texts, a collection of Hittite writings unearthed at Kanesh. They depict it as a major seat of power in the region, describing its ruler as "Great King" (rubā'um rabi'um) whereas other rulers are merely "kings". A separate text known as the "King of Battle" (šar tamhāri), dating to the 14th century BC, recounts a heavily embellished account of the Akkadian king Sargon carrying out an expedition against Purushanda's ruler Nur-Dagan (or Nur-Daggal). The story is ahistorical, as it apparently portrays the 23rd-century Sargon in an anachronistic 19th-century BC setting. Some modern scholars consider it a work of fiction, although the Akkadian language version was also found among the Amarna letters (Egypt), and it may have some basis in historical fact.[3]
In the story, Sargon yearns for battle but is advised against it by his generals. Nonetheless, when a message arrives from a group of Akkadian merchants in Purushanda pleading for help from Sargon against the oppressive Nur-Dagan, the king mobilises his army and marches off through difficult terrain. Nur-Dagan is hopeful that flooding and the terrain will thwart Sargon, but the Akkadian launches a lightning attack which captures Purushanda. Nur-Dagan is taken prisoner and grovels before Sargon, declaring him to be a peerless mighty king and perhaps swearing allegiance as a vassal. After three years the Akkadians leave, taking with them the fruits of the land as spoils of war.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purushanda
Purushhattum sounds strikingly similar to Purushottam, Not sure what to make of it exactly, but interesting nevertheless.
@Vasista and Assuwatama
Regarding Y3 not being found on steppe, still no samples have be some of the steppe culture
For ex: Multi-cordoned_ware_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-cordoned_ware_culture
Steppe derived cultures, for instance - Noua-Sabatinovka-Coslogeni culture
At the beginning of the 15th century BC, after the last phase of the Wietenberg Culture, a sudden change in the development of the settlement appeared. The architecture, the funerary rite, the pottery and material culture in general changed. These changes resulted from the arrival of a new population from the Eurasian steppes, the so-called Noua-Sabatinovka-Coslogeni culture,[11] in southeastern Transylvania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotbav_Archaeological_Site
So, still it is possible to found Y3 or its downstream clades in Steppe
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