The authors sampled 197 total people of NW India from the Jat Sikh, Bania, Khatri, Brahmin & SC castes. One of the main findings is below.
North-West Indian population groups had a total of 55.86% of samples characterised as belonging to South Asian ancestry haplogroups (M, U2, U4), followed by West Eurasian (40.18%, H, HV, I, J, K, N, R, R0, T, U1a, U5a, U7, U8a, W, X) and East Asian (3.96%, A, B, C, D, F, G ) (Fig. 1).
The below analysis is mine, after studying the raw data in the paper.
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| mtDna frequency by caste groups in NW India. |
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| mtDna origin frequency in different castes. Origin is taken as per the authors' definition. |
Khatri caste seems to be an outlier. Apart from that, nothing too significant in this paper. good thing is we have more modern samples from India with good depth in mtDna calls.
The K2b1a1 samples are interesting. So far the only women on yfull with these calls are from europe. Only 4 samples from the aDna database belong to this subclade (2 of them are vikings from scandinavia, while oldest is a bell beaker from Germany.
The 6 K2b1a1's and 1 W5a in the brahmins are definitely of european origin, while the rest of the west eurasian Mtdnas could also be from Iran/SC asia. 7/45 = 15.55% (margin error +-10.5%).
The great grandmothers of these people probably came along with the steppe autosomal ancestry as also shown in Narasimhan 2019.
Any thoughts?
So these are the future generations of the iron age swat samples?
ReplyDeleteIs the ratio of mtdna vs ydna far more maternally shifted? I know the swat samples show this, but do modern samples show this as well?
ReplyDeleteThe paper seems to be behind a pay wall. But as per the conclusions, and lets say from an ait pov-the aryans also got their wives to india?
ReplyDelete@anonbloggerind I will have to check if k2b1a1 is present in swat.
ReplyDelete@anonbloggerind there is no K2b in Swat aDna.
ReplyDelete@dave ian
ReplyDelete"The paper seems to be behind a pay wall. But as per the conclusions, and lets say from an ait pov-the aryans also got their wives to india?"
The problem is that AIT pov always keeps goalpost shifting like this. So there is literally nothing to deny their hypothesis. So far I have not received a single piece of evidence by AITians which they say that if found true it would disprove the hypothesis.
@3rdacc
"Is the ratio of mtdna vs y-dna far more maternally shifted? I know the swat samples show this, but do modern samples show this as well?"
The steppe in swat samples is clearly mediated via females.
The steppe in Indian samples will be mediated by males
Only if its assumed that all R1a subclades found in India are of steppe origin, which Narasimhan does assume
Now this is not necessarily true. The bulk of the modern R1a in Indians is R1a-L657, the formation and TMRCA date of which is 2000bce and prior as per Yfull, and Yfull dates are usually newer than actual.
No L657 is found in hundreds of steppe samples from bronze so far, or even later. The only L657 found so far is in Roopkund A from 800CE in India. Not only that, is it is the case that L657 was formed from Z93>Z94 in steppe itself around 2000bce, why is there no L657 even in modern russians or other east europeans?
Given that there is absolute dearth of this L657 in steppe ancient dna as well as modern europe, how can one say that this R1a-L657 in indians is european?
@vAsiSTha
ReplyDeletethank you for getting back to me. Now I understand most of r1a in india belongs to the z93-L657 branch. I have also come across indians who say they have basal lineages like M417. Is it known if there are any r1a-z93 samples which belong to the exact clades found in russia and central asia?
Also, are you arguing for a indian origin for z93?
"and TMRCA date of which is 2000bce and prior as per Yfull, and Yfull dates are usually newer than actual"
anywhere where I can read more about this. TMRCA dates given for Indian r1a seems to be the oldest.
@3rdacc
ReplyDelete"I have also come across indians who say they have basal lineages like M417"
Dr Rai & Chaubey are working on modern indian 10k samples project and they claim to have found many upstream clades of L657 in india, including some not found in the steppes bronze age. Such as R1, R1a, R1a1. However their work is not published yet.
"Is it known if there are any r1a-z93 samples which belong to the exact clades found in russia and central asia"
Yes there are a couple of R1a in swat aDna which are the same clade as steppe bronze age ie Z93 and Z94.
"Also, are you arguing for a indian origin for z93?"
No, i cannot claim this with just 1 female aDna sample from india. What i am arguing is for the presence of Z93 in india before 2000bce who fathered the L657 branch inside india itself. This Z93 before 2000bce therefore becomes unrelated to AIT due to the timeframe not matching that of AIT.
"anywhere where I can read more about this. TMRCA dates given for Indian r1a seems to be the oldest."
Yfull is the most reliable for y haplogroup assignment of samples due to its large array of snps used. tmrca can be checked for each subclade from the yfull tree on the right of the subclade.
eg. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L657/
"Also, are you arguing for a indian origin for z93?" --- i think that's going to be highly unlikely given ~4000 BCE Sredny Stog sample already had R1a-Z93.
DeleteVasistha is most likely right that L657 entered india before the mainstream dates for AIT. Most likely we will find that in IVC in future samples.
We notice something sinilar in europe where R1b-V88 lineage was present much before yamnata migrations.
I think we should make a distinction between steppe mtDNA and west Eurasian mtDNA in the sense that, while steppe mtDNA are likely intrusive to South Asia, the same cannot be said for West Eurasian mtDNA in general. We should remember that many basal clades of mtDNA R have been found in the subcontinent.
ReplyDelete@jaydeep
ReplyDeleteIn general mainstream academia tends to nonchalantly assign west eurasian origins to various haplogroups without further research. Comes from the same bizarre idea that Iran_N comes from the west despite the overwhelming evidence showing its origin in the subcontinent.
@jaydeep
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. The haplogroups should be divided into south asian (although I dislike the nomenclature), iranian, central asian and European.
I consider all M & R mtdna in this paper to be south asian.
QpAdm tutorial blogpost is up
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@tim drake
ReplyDelete""Also, are you arguing for a indian origin for z93?" --- i think that's going to be highly unlikely given ~4000 BCE Sredny Stog sample already had R1a-Z93."
my thoughts too.
"Vasistha is most likely right that L657 entered india before the mainstream dates for AIT. Most likely we will find that in IVC in future samples."
hopefuly we get the paper by Chaubey and Rai. They claim to have several samples with basal lineages of r1a.
Sredny stog sample was redated. No longer oldest
ReplyDelete@vAsiSTha
ReplyDeletemany sites including wikipedia havn't updated it lol. Also can you send the source?
Source is .anno file on the latest Harvard Allen adna database. Sample Id i6561
ReplyDelete2000bce is the new date for i6561
ReplyDelete@vAsiSTha
ReplyDeletethank you.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete