tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post3812199961710470246..comments2024-03-21T09:56:35.714+05:30Comments on The Archaeogenetics blog: Steppe ancestry entered modern Indian Populations post 900 BCEvAsiSThahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-2117584980454934212022-08-19T08:52:42.047+05:302022-08-19T08:52:42.047+05:30"Modern homos have inherited more DNA from th..."Modern homos have inherited more DNA from their ancestors than native breeders", says professor Ano Komo from Kagawa University, 86% of their ancestry alone descends from Bootygig culture (850-320BC), Dark room culture (5000BC-60BC), Back Door cradle (800-100BC), and Manhole.<br />"The results were astonishing" said in regards to such endogamy remaining even with cultural and migrational shifts. L5379 mutation virtually absent in remains, while unique Haplogroup R1d1ck was found in over 93% of Bootygig-Manhole complex mummies and reimains in 87% of modern "happy men".<br /><br />The female lineage, however, seems slightly more mixed. "Paternally, it's a direct descend"<br />Experts explain it as no contact with local breeders and the 14% average local admixture being female-mediated (gaga el. al) while the 6% foreign male lineages coming from a low-grade influx of semiheteros as observed by madonna el al.<br /><br />"Even the foreign lineages have native proto-homoland mutations at some part of the Y chromosome" The speculation, however, still seems unthinkable given historical oppression of semiheteros, and them being called "bifrutas" (bi-fruits in spanish) which was also the name of a drink.<br /><br />Mixing and kidnapping of local women was more documented in infamous Dark Room towards the latest stages.<br />There's been talk of this foreign minimal amount of male haplogroups coming from slaves, or poor local breeders dominated and forced to convert while some others srressvthat it was just a folklore tale or urban legend.Analisa Melanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17132040065578617462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-18185750526108586052022-01-06T11:15:56.524+05:302022-01-06T11:15:56.524+05:30"whose remnants still persist in the form of ..."whose remnants still persist in the form of some modern Ror, Jat, Gujjar, & Kamboj descendants... " <br /><br /><br />@Indospehere, <br />Gujjars and Kambojs don't have much steppe_MLBA ancestry, their primary west eurasian ancestry is from Iran_N + WSHG like source, something like a very low AASI IVC periphery like source . Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-15512571396862406462022-01-05T10:35:33.598+05:302022-01-05T10:35:33.598+05:30What are the inputs? Do you specify the SNPs i &am...What are the inputs? Do you specify the SNPs i & j? Or does DATES software go through the whole eigenstrat database and iteratively average over multiple pairwise i and j that it selects automatically?<br /><br />The inputs are the genotype file and the target + 2 sources, plus parameter file.<br /><br />The software goes through all SNPs i & j at a distance of d=0.45centimorgan + delta d.. delta d is varied to plot the covariance at each point d on x axis.<br /><br />The resulting curve is an exponential decay curve, and the output is calculated from its rate of decay. vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-89401148895775609462022-01-05T10:29:44.792+05:302022-01-05T10:29:44.792+05:30@tim
Tarim_emba like ancestry was present in indu...@tim<br /><br />Tarim_emba like ancestry was present in indus periphery formation, and some also likely came in post bronze along with steppe. Exact origin is unknown, though it looks related to tarimEmba.<br /><br />2. Dates will give admixture date of the 2 provided sources in the target. Narasimhan used steppe + Telugu for swat as target, whereas we know that bmac is another source in swat.<br />The output of DATEs also tell us if the model is valid, ie the out out graph is an exponential decline. If the model is invalid it will just be flat.<br />3. I haven't run dates on gujarati Brahmins or rors, so can't say.<br />RoopkundA has 23 random samples from the era and therefore a good set to analyze.<br /><br /><br />vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-62925205484632617312022-01-05T08:56:08.709+05:302022-01-05T08:56:08.709+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.Indospherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17106414008921382928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-6422493593876373882022-01-05T08:28:09.929+05:302022-01-05T08:28:09.929+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.Indospherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17106414008921382928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-26415706564924751612022-01-05T08:10:46.891+05:302022-01-05T08:10:46.891+05:30Re: DATES
"Under admixture of 2 sources into...Re: DATES<br /><br />"Under admixture of 2 sources into target model, the covariance of a specific residual function ((function of allele frequencies at a particular snp in all 3 samples - target, s1, s2) ) at different SNPs i & j, where i & j are separated by distance d in centimorgans, decays at an exponential rate as a function of d. The older the admixture, the faster the decay"<br /><br />This appears to be premised on the concept of linkage disequilibrium. As more generations pass, the size of "Identical by Descent" blocks (in centiMorgans) becomes smaller and smaller as recombination events accrue. A pair of distinct but nearby SNP loci (i,j) would be inherited together less and less frequently (hence, covariance would decay) as number of generations from the coalescent increased.<br /><br />What are the inputs? Do you specify the SNPs i & j? Or does DATES software go through the whole eigenstrat database and iteratively average over multiple pairwise i and j that it selects automatically?Indospherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17106414008921382928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-41048623597564069542022-01-05T02:22:25.416+05:302022-01-05T02:22:25.416+05:30Per Pathak et al (Am J Human Genet, 2018) the Ror ...Per Pathak et al (Am J Human Genet, 2018) the Ror are genetic outliers in Northwest India who (1) display more components related to EHG,Anatolia-N, CHG, Steppe-EMBA & MLBA than any other NW Indian pop (2) Are genetically closer to SGPT & BMAC than other NW Indians (3) Surprisingly, are the ONLY South Asian group genetically closer to Anatolia-N than to Iran-N. The Ror are also known to have the highest freq of lactase persistance allele -13910*T than most other Indian popns by far.<br /><br />This scenario is consistent with an initial injection of Steppe ancestry on the N/W periphery of the IV that remained relatively contained (little intermixing with Iran-N Heavy locals) and whose remnants still persist in the form of some modern Ror, Jat, Gujjar, & Kamboj descendants... separate & apart from the injection of Steppe ancestry responsible for most of the currently observed Steppe component in Indians. <br /><br />So that would tie in with a 2-step insertion of Steppe ancestry.Indospherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17106414008921382928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-39344597447523673662022-01-04T20:23:37.748+05:302022-01-04T20:23:37.748+05:30> He commented that - "Gujarati Brahmins, ...> He commented that - "Gujarati Brahmins, Rors get a date between 1200-1000 BCE, which perfectly coincides with PGW. <br /><br />No, newer carbon dating of PGW brings it before 2000 BCE. <br /><br />https://www.academia.edu/36067852/Painted_Grey_Ware_Culture_Changing_Perspectives<br /><br />"the earliest phase might be considered to have begun about 2300 BCE and the late phase as late as 700 BCE. If this is actually the scenario, then the PGW might be the longest surviving pottery tradition in Indian archaeological history."<br />3rdacchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12750971105219195280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-40427001686090535582022-01-04T17:29:52.512+05:302022-01-04T17:29:52.512+05:30Hi vasistha,
Some questions
1) Given how genetica...Hi vasistha,<br />Some questions<br /><br />1) Given how genetically isolated tarim_emba samples were, it's doubtful that a population like that would have contributed directly to the swat valley iron age pop ! Do swat valley ancients scoring some tarim_EMBA like ancestry mean that these ancients need some extra ANE/WSHG like ancestry than what's accounted for in the Indus Peripheries ? The 'need for extra ANE/WSHG on top IVCp' theme is appearing again and again <br /><br />2) Regarding dates model, I remember I commented about admixture dates of various high steppe castes provided in Narasimhan's paper in an earlier blog of yours but you seemed to brush that off due to the large range. Here, you have assumed 2 source mixture model (Sintastha_MLBA with either Irula or Shahr_Sokhta_BA2). Is such a two source model valid from a historical point of view ? Shouldn't it be a three source model or either Sintastha+IVCp like pop mixing Irula like pop ? <br /><br />3) I was browsing through anthrogenica and I saw pegasus's comment regarding your post. He commented that - <i>"Gujarati Brahmins, Rors get a date between 1200-1000 BCE, which perfectly coincides with PGW. "</i>. It seems that they have run DATES on Ror samples and get earlier dates for steppe admixture. What are your thoughts on this ?tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-44325247296022916722022-01-02T13:46:39.830+05:302022-01-02T13:46:39.830+05:30There was transmission of barley and sheet along I...There was transmission of barley and sheet along IAMC since 3000bce. You see grains from SC asia in begash/tasbas at 2600bce along with first recorded cremation in the region. vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-4304414688668167702022-01-02T13:31:15.066+05:302022-01-02T13:31:15.066+05:30Typical dates for trade along the Silk Road start ...Typical dates for trade along the Silk Road start at 200 bc but evidence for dairying with xiaohe mummies show that there was trade and transmission of ideas along the IAMC route even in 2000 bc.postneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-2428756898070076292022-01-02T00:55:24.129+05:302022-01-02T00:55:24.129+05:30@3rdacc He puts Alexander back to c. 950BCE. That&...@3rdacc He puts Alexander back to c. 950BCE. That's hard to believe because it is tied to Egypt's chronology, which is calibrated by C14 dating to the mainstream age. So, I can't take him seriously.Daniel de França MTd2https://www.blogger.com/profile/01281817409696805377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-54310380845211945232022-01-01T23:55:27.794+05:302022-01-01T23:55:27.794+05:30@AshishKaull
Search up Vedveer Arya. He has made ...@AshishKaull<br /><br />Search up Vedveer Arya. He has made his three books public on his academia.edu page. A lot of reading though.3rdacchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12750971105219195280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-1723123587835709782022-01-01T23:43:55.406+05:302022-01-01T23:43:55.406+05:30I would like to know more about this "non-mai...I would like to know more about this "non-mainstream long chronology"<br /><br />Links please 🙏Assuwatama https://www.blogger.com/profile/09103619946493477587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-43243129477826641092022-01-01T23:22:31.882+05:302022-01-01T23:22:31.882+05:30> yeah some of those high steppe roopkund sampl...> yeah some of those high steppe roopkund samples do show some affinity to Wusun and kushana/kangju groups in G25. will analyze that later.<br /><br />Exciting, I hope my hunch turns out right. If further analysis shows this is the case, this will be big piece of evidence in favor of Long Chronology. 3rdacchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12750971105219195280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-1138819209145896532022-01-01T23:17:19.741+05:302022-01-01T23:17:19.741+05:30yeah some of those high steppe roopkund samples do...yeah some of those high steppe roopkund samples do show some affinity to Wusun and kushana/kangju groups in G25. will analyze that later.vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-73928421250533258902022-01-01T20:52:13.355+05:302022-01-01T20:52:13.355+05:30A Steppe entry of 800-500 BCE plays perfectly into...A Steppe entry of 800-500 BCE plays perfectly into the non-mainstream long chronology of indian history. Thats when the first Scythians entered India. 3rdacchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12750971105219195280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-72954134892332526702022-01-01T18:02:00.419+05:302022-01-01T18:02:00.419+05:30@Daniel de França MTd2
Finally found
Greek image...@Daniel de França MTd2<br /><br />Finally found<br /><br />Greek image of Indian society<br /><br />https://ejournals.epublishing.ekt.gr/index.php/makedonika/article/viewFile/6094/5832.pdfAssuwatama https://www.blogger.com/profile/09103619946493477587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-88629344635835081182022-01-01T18:00:58.282+05:302022-01-01T18:00:58.282+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.Assuwatama https://www.blogger.com/profile/09103619946493477587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-35714402775804913512022-01-01T17:53:54.613+05:302022-01-01T17:53:54.613+05:30Yup! Too long a timegap.
Many people had moved int...Yup! Too long a timegap.<br />Many people had moved into the region by the Alexander's time.Assuwatama https://www.blogger.com/profile/09103619946493477587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-70006360500062892092022-01-01T17:39:47.713+05:302022-01-01T17:39:47.713+05:30@kaul
Assaceni are swat people only, only differen...@kaul<br />Assaceni are swat people only, only different timeperiodvAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-27819396318868840932022-01-01T17:14:59.334+05:302022-01-01T17:14:59.334+05:30Sorry still not able to find that file but here is...Sorry still not able to find that file but here is another interesting info:<br /><br />"Arrian, in the commencement of his “Indica,” mentions the Assaceni and the Astaceni as Indian nations in the mountains between the Indus and the Cophenes; but he distinguishes them from the other Indians as being less in size and fairer in complexion."Assuwatama https://www.blogger.com/profile/09103619946493477587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-9011556577915739282022-01-01T17:05:30.231+05:302022-01-01T17:05:30.231+05:30Can't say @ashishkaulCan't say @ashishkaulvAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2318148078650344460.post-83835150441858257122022-01-01T16:50:43.630+05:302022-01-01T16:50:43.630+05:30Yup!
BTW the myth about Greeks in india before Al...Yup!<br /><br />BTW the myth about Greeks in india before Alex's invasion, is it proven myth or is there any truth to it?Assuwatama https://www.blogger.com/profile/09103619946493477587noreply@blogger.com